The Greatest Generation Live Podcast

Astronaut Jan Davis

Astronaut Jan Davis talks about her life in aviation and the legacy of service in her family. Her memoir Air Born, tells the story of her and her father.
Her father was Ben Smotherman, a B-17 pilot in World War II, vwho aliantly fought in the European Theater of Operations before being shot down over Holland in July 1943. After enduring twenty-one months as a prisoner of war, he was finally reunited with his loved ones and was able to start a family. Years later, after perusing his Wartime Log, his daughter Jan made discoveries about her father’s experiences that shed light on her own life path. As a Space Shuttle astronaut, Jan Davis went through intensive training, flew NASA jets, and completed three spaceflights, spending over 673 hours on orbit. Her experiences and emotions during her launches and space travel echoed those of her father during his combat missions, highlighting the unshakable bond between father and daughter.
With Air Born, you can join in on a flight through history as Jan Davis relates her father’s heroic service and draws connections between his combat missions and her own spaceflights. Discover the ins and outs of pilot training in the 1940s alongside Ben Smotherman and bear witness to his harrowing capture, interrogation, and imprisonment at Stalag Luft III. Rejoice with the POWs as World War II finally ends and the prisoners are returned home to continue pursuing their life’s goals. Shadow Jan Davis as she expertly navigates a career characterized by space exploration, scientific experimentation, and phenomenal feats of engineering. And draw inspiration from the intersection of two completely different yet uniquely connected worlds brought together by a common link of family and flying.
We’re grateful to UPMC for Life and Tobacco Free Adagio Health for sponsoring this event!
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The Untold Story of American POWs at Buchenwald

During World War II, 168 American airmen found themselves in one of the most notorious concentration camps of the Holocaust: Buchenwald. This unexpected and harrowing chapter of their captivity began in 1944 and stands as a grim reminder of the broader atrocities of the war.
Author Ric Martini joins us to discuss his research into this disturbing subject, which he compiled in his book Betrayed: Secrecy, Lies, and Consequences. Ric’s father, Frederic C. Martini, was one of those imprisoned at Buchenwald.
These airmen were primarily bomber crew members shot down over German-occupied Europe. Typically, Allied airmen captured by German forces were considered prisoners of war (POWs) and were sent to military-run POW camps, as stipulated by the Geneva Convention. However, this group of airmen faced a different fate due to a series of tragic misunderstandings and bureaucratic failings.
After being shot down, the airmen initially evaded capture with the help of local resistance networks. Unfortunately, these efforts often ended in their eventual capture by German forces. Labeled as “terrorflieger” or “terror fliers” by the Nazi regime—propaganda that painted them as criminals rather than soldiers—their fate was dire. The Gestapo, rather than the military, took custody of these men. The Gestapo bypassed the established protocol for treating captured Allied airmen and instead classified them as spies or saboteurs, stripping them of the protections normally afforded to POWs.
In August 1944, these captured airmen were transported to Buchenwald, a concentration camp primarily used for political prisoners and other targets of the Nazi regime. Their arrival at Buchenwald was marked by shock and confusion; they were housed alongside political prisoners, resistance fighters, and other groups persecuted by the Nazis.
Conditions at Buchenwald were horrific. The airmen were subjected to the same brutal treatment as other inmates: overcrowding, inadequate food, harsh labor, and rampant disease. The camp’s SS guards showed no regard for their status as military personnel. Instead, the airmen faced beatings, deprivation, and the constant threat of execution.
The turning point for these airmen came through the persistence and bravery of a few individuals. Among the prisoners were individuals who, through covert communication and sheer determination, managed to get word to the Luftwaffe (German Air Force) officers about the presence of Allied airmen in the camp. The Luftwaffe, still adhering to some remnants of the military code of honor, was outraged to learn that legitimate POWs were being held in a concentration camp.
Under pressure from the Luftwaffe, and fearing repercussions from the advancing Allied forces, the SS transferred the airmen to Stalag Luft III, a more conventional POW camp. This transfer occurred in October 1944, nearly two months after their initial arrival at Buchenwald. Despite their rescue from the concentration camp, the physical and psychological scars of their experience at Buchenwald remained with them.
The story of the 168 American airmen held at Buchenwald highlights the complex interplay of military protocols, Nazi ideology, and the chaotic nature of wartime Europe. It underscores the brutality of the Nazi regime and the resilience of those who endured its horrors. These airmen’s survival, against such grim odds, stands as a testament to their courage and the enduring human spirit amidst one of history’s darkest periods.
But another disturbing element of this tragedy is that the 81 American veterans who returned home endured the indignity of the US government denying that they’d ever been there. The denial, based on “alternative facts,” had a profound effect on the lives of men who had first been betrayed to the Germans and then betrayed by the government they had suffered to defend. 
Ric’s father, like many other Buchenwald airmen, came home with serious medical problems and acute PTSD. These men were told by the VA that their problems were imaginary because they could not have been at Buchenwald. They were considered to be either lying or delusional. This bizarre injustice continued for almost 40 years, until some of the files related to the Buchenwald airmen were declassified.
Piecing together this story involved reviewing over 160,000 pages of declassified documents. Ric’s book project took seven years and required the assistance of archivists, curators, translators, and fellow researchers in the US, Britain, Canada, France, Germany, and New Zealand.
We’re grateful to UPMC for Life and Tobacco Free Adagio Health for sponsoring this event!
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The Hunt for Enigma and the U-Boat Carrying It in World War II

We welcome writer and Executive Producer of Inside Edition Charles Lachman to talk about his new book, Codename Nemo: The Hunt for a Nazi U-Boat and The Elusive Enigma Machine.
The book is a white-knuckled saga of a maverick captain, nine courageous sailors, and a US Navy task force who achieved the impossible on June 4, 1944–capturing Nazi submarine U-505, its crew, technology, encryption codes, and an Enigma cipher machine. 
Two days before D-Day–the course of World War II was forever changed. The hunters of the Atlantic Ocean had become the hunted, and US antisubmarine Task Group 22.3 seized a Nazi U-boat, its crew, and all its secrets. Led by a nine-man boarding party and Captain Daniel Gallery, “Operation Nemo” was the first seizure of an enemy warship in battle since the War of 1812, a victory that shortened the duration of the war. But at any moment, the mission could have ended in disaster.
Charles Lachman tells this thrilling cat-and-mouse game through the eyes of the men on both sides of Operation Nemo–German U-boaters and American heroes like Lieutenant Albert David (“Mustang”), who led the boarding party that took control of U-505 and became the only sailor to be awarded the Medal of Honor in the Battle of the Atlantic.
Three thousand American sailors participated in this extraordinary adventure; nine ordinary American men channeling extraordinary skill and bravery finished the job; and then–like everyone involved–breathed not a word of it until the war was over.
In Berlin, the German Kriegsmarine assumed that U-505 had been blown to bits by depth charges, with all hands lost at sea. They were unaware that the U-boat, its Enigma machine, and its Nazi coded messages were now in American hands. They were also unaware that the 59 German sailors captured on the high seas were imprisoned in a POW camp in Ruston, Louisiana, until their release in 1946.
A deeply researched, fast-paced World War II narrative for the ages, Charles Lachman’s Codename Nemo traces every step of this historic pursuit on the deadly seas.
We’re grateful to UPMC for Life and Tobacco Free Adagio Health for sponsoring this event!

Major League Baseball Players in World War II

For the 80th anniversary we talk about D-Day veteran Yogi Berra and the 38 other Major League Baseball Hall of Famers who served in World War II.
That’s right: 39 members of the Baseball Hall of Fame at Cooperstown served in the military during World War II.
It’s a sign of how the war effort took precedence over everything in American life between 1941-1945, including the national pastime. ,
One of the most notable players who joined the military was Ted Williams, a star outfielder for the Boston Red Sox. Williams enlisted in the Navy and became a fighter pilot. His absence from baseball lasted nearly three years, from 1943 to 1945. He served with distinction, earning several commendations.
Joe DiMaggio, the celebrated center fielder for the New York Yankees, also left MLB to serve in the Army Air Forces. DiMaggio’s enlistment came in 1943, and he spent three years in the military, where he primarily took on a role in physical education and morale-boosting duties, playing on military baseball teams.
Hank Greenberg, a powerful hitter for the Detroit Tigers, was another significant player who served during the war. Greenberg was among the first major leaguers to enlist, joining the Army Air Forces in 1941, just after the attack on Pearl Harbor. He was discharged in 1944 but was called back to service, ultimately spending nearly four years in the military.
Stan Musial, an outfielder and first baseman for the St. Louis Cardinals, enlisted in the Navy in early 1945. Although he joined later in the war, Musial still missed the entire season.
The departure of these stars, along with many others, led to a noticeable decline in the overall quality of play in MLB. Teams had to fill their rosters with older players, young prospects, and those classified as 4-F, meaning they were deemed unfit for military service due to physical, mental, or moral reasons.
Despite these challenges, baseball continued throughout the war, providing a source of entertainment and morale for both the public and the troops. The league also made adjustments to accommodate the war effort, such as implementing “victory games” to raise money for the military and other war-related causes.
The war’s end in 1945 saw the gradual return of players from military service, rejuvenating the league. Their service and sacrifice added a layer of respect and admiration from fans, highlighting the deep connection between baseball and American society during this tumultuous period.
We’re grateful to UPMC for Life and Tobacco Free Adagio Health for sponsoring this event!
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Playtone’s Kirk Saduski on “Masters of the Air”

Playtone’s Kirk Saduski talks about creating “Masters of the Air,” as well as working on Band of Brothers, The Pacific, and many other historical features, series, and documentaries.
Kirk Saduski has a B.A. in history from UCLA and an M.A. in history from S.F. State. He has been a producer and executive at Playtone since 1998. He was Executive-in-charge of the HBOmini-series Band of Brothers as well as a Co-Producer of the HBO mini-series John Adams and The Pacific and the HBO movie Game Change. Mr. Saduski was Co-Producer of the HBO documentary David McCullough: Painting with Words and Producer of the HBO documentary He Has Seen War. He is a Co-Executive Producer of the CNN documentary series The Sixties, The Seventies, The Eighties, The Nineties, 1968, and The 2000s. He is currently in production on American Movies Through the Decades for CNN. A member of the Presidential Council at the National World War Two Museum and a Narrative Advisor to the National World War Two Museum in Washington D.C., Mr. Saduski has been an instructor at UCLA since 2010.
We’re grateful to UPMC for Life and Tobacco Free Adagio Health for sponsoring this event!
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WWII Tuskegee Airman Harry Stewart

WWII P-51 Pilot and Tuskegee Airman Harry Stewart shares his story with us on Greatest Generation Live.
Stewart successfully completed 43 missions during World War II and is one of only four Tuskegee Airmen to have earned three aerial victories in a single day of combat. When the war in Europe ended, Stewart and his comrades expected to go to the Pacific. But after the Japanese surrender in August 1945, Stewart returned to the U.S. In 1949, he served as part of the team from the 332nd Fighter Group that won the first ever “Top Gun” fighter gunnery competition.
Also joining is is historian David Snead, author of Flying with the Fifteenth Air Force: A B-24 Pilot’s Missions from Italy during World War II. The subject of the book, Tom Faulkner, was a B-24 pilot flying out of San Giovanni airfield in Italy . Only 19 years old when he completed his 28th and last mission, Tom was one of the youngest bomber pilots to serve in the U.S. Army Air Forces during World War II.
Harry Stewart, also with the 15th Air Force, grew up near LaGuardia Airport in Queens, which got him curious about airplanes. After Pearl Harbor, he joined the Army Air Corps to qualify as a pilot. He went to Tuskegee, Alabama, where the famous African American pilots called Tuskegee Airmen trained. He received his wings in June 1944. Stewart then commissioned as a second lieutenant and learned to fly P-40 and P-47 fighter aircraft at Walterboro Army Air Field in South Carolina. After combat training, Stewart served with the 301st Fighter Squadron as part of the 332nd Fighter Group, known as “The Red Tails.” He then went to Italy with 15th Air Force. Stewart escorted B-17 and B-24 bombers over Italy, Germany and Austria.
We’re grateful to UPMC for Life and Tobacco Free Adagio Health for sponsoring this event!
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WWII B-24 Pilot John Homan

Guest John Homan was a B-24 pilot in World War II. He recently published his memoirs, "Into the Cold Blue: My World War II Journeys with the Mighty Eighth Air Force" with Professor Jared Frederick, who also joins us. 
Into the Cold Blue is a riveting account of the air war over Europe, when hell was four miles above the earth.
A born daredevil, John Homan joined the Army Air Forces after the attack on Pearl Harbor. By 1944, he was co-piloting a B-24 Liberator over Nazi Germany, raining death and destruction on the enemy. This first-person account of his harrowing missions chronicles deadly flights through skies of red-hot flak bursts and airmen bailing out with parachutes aflame. The tale will leave readers staggered by the determination and grit of World War II aviators.
Fighting a fierce enemy in the air seemed the perfect way for Homan to demonstrate his boldness, but he never could have imagined the horrors that awaited him. During a vast operation over Nazi-occupied Holland in September 1944, his plane was punched full of holes, its left tail shot away, and a tire blown to bits. Homan wondered how he could possibly survive. The young lieutenant and his exhausted crewmates braced for a nearly hopeless emergency landing. Meanwhile, across the Atlantic, waited the sweetheart he thought he’d never see again.
With wit, warmth, and astonishing clarity, John Homan conveys the skill and heroism of the “Mighty Eighth” Air Force in the most perilous theater of history’s greatest air war.
We’re grateful to UPMC for Life and Tobacco Free Adagio Health for sponsoring this event!
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The Bloody 100th Bomb Group in World War II

Glenn Flickinger leads another conversation about Masters of the Air, this time with children and grandchildren of the Apple TV+ series’ main characters. Each is an expert on the 100th Bomb Group, and each will share their family members’ stories and their thoughts on the series.
Rebecca Crosby Hutchinson, daughter of Navigator Harry Crosby, Sam Rosenthal, grandson of Pilot Rosie Rosenthal, and Nancy Putnam, daughter of Pilot and POW Gerald Putnam give an inside look at the making of Masters of the Air from viewpoints of three 100th Bomb Group families.Rebecca was the primary Crosby family source for script writer John Orloff and Executive Producer Kirk Saduski. Along with her siblings, Rebecca visited the set in England, and speaks with knowledge and humor about seeing her father “come to life” years before she was born. The Crosby family coordinated with Apple and hosted the official January 26 premiere of Masters of the Air in Boston at the historic Coolidge Corner Theater, followed by a terrific entertaining discussion with Kirk, John and actor Anthony Boyle.Sam’s experiences are equally compelling, and not just as the grandson of Rosie. Sam is a trained actor and had a small role as an airman in Masters  – this placed him inside the production at a time, during Covid, where it was a restricted access campus. If you’ve listened to any of the actor interviews about their roles in Masters, they speak of the true bond that formed among the acting corps, very much like the bonds of 100th BG airmen. Filming ended 2+years ago, and many remain in close touch. Sam was there on set to watch Nate Mann portray his beloved grandfather.While Nancy’s father is not portrayed in Masters, she was involved behind the scenes from early on. Her father was a 100th BG/349th Sq command pilot and operations officer, shot down leading the 13th CW on March 3, 1944, and a POW at Stalag Luft I. Rosie served in the 100th BG 418th Sq which was the primary squadron focus of Masters. Gerald Putnam was Rosie’s roommate and close friend all through pilot training (Dec ’41 to Sept ’43). While assigned to four months of gunnery training in Sebring FL, they engaged in the aerial dogfights that Rosie credits with saving him on the Munster mission: when not pulling targets, they could sign out planes and fly. And fly they did! Think of young men with fast cars, only in the sky.Compare this to Lucky Luckadoo who went from 2-engine training to B-17 combat with no 4-engine phase training whatsoever.  The skeptics who say a B-17 cannot perform maneuvers that Rosie did escaping the German fighters are wrong. Those aerial combat scenes depicted in Masters are accurate.Thank you to Tobacco Free Adagio Health and UPMC for Life for sponsoring this event!
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POW Spies at Stalag Luft III in World War II

Jim Keeffe and Carol Godwin join Glenn to share the history of Stalag Luft III.
On the 8th of March 1944, during a bombing mission to Berlin, 19-year-old B-24 pilot James Keeffe was shot down over Holland, catapulting him into a world squeezed colorless by the ever-tightening fist of Nazi occupation.
Moving from safe house to safe house with the help of the Dutch Underground, Lt. Keeffe, in plain view of the enemy, evades for five harrowing months. During an escape attempt through Belgium he is betrayed, captured and transferred under armed guard to the infamous German prisoner-of-war camp Stalag Luft III - site of the Great Escape.
Jim will share the story of his fascinating book, "Two Gold Coins and a Prayer: The Epic Journey of a World War II Bomber Pilot, Evader, and POW"(https://www.amazon.com/Two-Gold-Coins...)
Carol Goodwin is the niece of Brig. Gen. Paul Tibbets who flew the B-29 Enola Gay and dropped the atom bomb on Hiroshima, and is the daughter of Stalag Luft II POW Capt. William Carey, who was a chief operative in Military Intelligence Service-X ( MIS-X), which was highly secret and functioned out of Ft. Hunt in Alexandria, VA. 
Bill had been co-piloting an experimental YB40 [reconfigured B-17] on a run to bomb the Hüls synthetic rubber plant Recklinghausen in northern Germany when he was shot down in June 1943.
After arriving at Stalag Luft III, he continued the war effort by utilizing his previous training as an OSS [Office of Strategic Services] agent to  become a covert code writer for MIS-X in Ft. Hunt. Carol’s father was head of the intelligence operation communicating with MIS-X from SL3. MIS-X sent and received coded letters with POWs. 
He taught other POWs how to code. He also participated in plays in the compound’s camp theatres, keeping him associated with many POWs while conducting intelligence. 
Her father thought he was corresponding with a woman in the U.S. He finally met “the woman” when he returned home.
British intelligence service MI9 did these same things from London. A German guard in the camp bragged he was going home to Peenemunde where there was a big VII rocket factory, and he said that rocket would win the war for the Germans. The RAF coders immediately reported that news to MI9 in London, and they passed the info on to the RAF who then immediately set up a bombing raid on Peenemunde destroying that facility. 
The guard returned to the camp and was dismayed to tell the POWs that the facility had been bombed, and he couldn’t understand how the RAF knew it was there.
The United States Department of War operated MIS-X. Secret equipment, such as small compasses, maps, and radios were smuggled into the camp to aid with escapes and intelligence operations.
Between MI9 and MIS-X, an abundance of contraband made its way into the camp. Each packer of special illegal parcels had a unique mark that the prisoners at Sagan were alerted to look for. 
As the tunnels advanced in the spring and summer of 1943, the steady delivery of illegal parcels flooded the camp, and shipments were quite sizable.
Monopoly games with real German money, brushes that came apart to reveal contraband, including inks for forging documents, sports equipment that hid the same, and compasses hidden in uniform buttons were gratefully received. 
There were blankets that when washed revealed pattern marks to cut along to turn into civilian jackets.
At one point, MI9 delivered a full German uniform. Ten days after the Japanese surrendered, ending the war, MIS-X was shut down. 
It was not until 1986 that any information about the covert operation was revealed. Exactly what they communicated and their methods for doing so are still somewhat classified today.
Thank you to Tobacco Free Adagio Health and UPMC for Life for sponsoring this event!
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How Winston Churchill Waged War with Allen Packwood

Glenn welcomes distinguished historian Allen Packwood, director of the Churchill Archives in Cambridge to discuss Winston Churchill’s wartime leadership. Our travel “Masters of the Air” tour to England in September 2024 will include a presentation by Allen Packwood at Churchill College in Cambridge.
Packwood’s book, “How Churchill Waged War,” delves into Winston Churchill’s leadership during World War II, challenging simplistic views of his wartime ministry. Packwood explores Churchill’s decision-making process, highlighting his humanity, emotion, and the complexity of his approach. The book focuses on pivotal moments, such as Churchill’s response to the fall of France and the Blitz, shedding light on his strategy and mindset.
Churchill’s leadership style was characterized by determination, forcefulness, and a willingness to take the offensive. He strategically positioned himself at the heart of the British war effort as Minister of Defence, closely interacting with senior commanders. Notably, Churchill faced challenges like the sinking of the French fleet, which he responded to decisively, even at the cost of strained relations with former allies.
During the Blitz, Churchill remained resolute in public, emphasizing retaliation and portraying bombing as part of Hitler’s invasion plan. Behind the scenes, he prioritized offensive strategies, particularly bombing Germany and bolstering forces in the Mediterranean. Churchill’s focus on offensive action aimed to wear down the enemy and maintain British imperial power.
However, Packwood also reveals Churchill’s vulnerabilities and the toll of leadership. Churchill faced opposition, suffered health issues, and grappled with limited resources. Despite his iconic status, he encountered criticism, internal strife, and the weight of wartime decisions.
Ultimately, Packwood portrays Churchill as a leader driven by the simple goal of victory at all costs, tackling challenges one at a time and navigating the complexities of war with resolve and determination.
Allen Packwood is a distinguished archivist and historian, currently serving as the Director of the Churchill Archives Centre at Churchill College, Cambridge. He has been associated with the Centre since 1995, initially as a qualified archivist, and later taking on roles of increasing responsibility, including Acting Keeper and ultimately Director in 2002.
Throughout his career, Packwood has been actively involved in curating exhibitions and organizing events related to Churchill and Cold War history. He is recognized for his expertise on Churchill and has lectured extensively in both the United Kingdom and the United States.
Under Packwood’s leadership, the Churchill Archives Centre continues to be a vital repository of historical documents, housing the papers of Sir Winston Churchill, Baroness Thatcher, and many other influential figures from the Churchill era and beyond.
Thank you to Tobacco Free Adagio Health and UPMC for Life for sponsoring this event!
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