The Greatest Generation Live Podcast

Sons of Lt. Col. Everett Blakely on “Masters of the Air”

Everett Ernest Blakely was a highly decorated B-17 pilot with the “Bloody Hundredth” Bombardment Group of the 8th Air Force in Europe. In the Apple TV mini-series, “Masters of the Air“, is David Shields plays the role of Blakely. Tonight, we have his two sons, David and Jim, to discuss what they think of the series and to tell us about their father’s service.
Blakely’s journey began with his early training in the U.S. Army Air Corps, where he learned to fly using the Stearman PT13 biplane at Hancock Field in Santa Maria, California. His determination and skill led him to advanced fighter training, but destiny took a turn when he was assigned to the 3rd Bomber Command at MacDill Field in Tampa, Florida, in May 1942. This marked the beginning of his transformation into a B-17 pilot, setting the stage for his pivotal role in the war.
Assigned to various bomber groups during his training, Blakely eventually connected with the 100th Bomb Group on October 28, 1942, officially assigned at Walla Walla Army Air Base in Washington. From there, he rose through the ranks, becoming not only a Command Pilot but also the group commander of the 418th Bombardment Squadron and Station Training Officer stationed at Thorpe Abbots Air Field in England.
Blakely’s combat experiences were diverse and intense, participating in numerous missions with the 100th Bomb Group. Notably, on August 17, 1943, during the historic two-pronged attack on Schweinfurt-Regensburg, he led the 100th Bomb Group as they penetrated deep into Germany. Despite facing over 300 Luftwaffe fighters, Blakely’s leadership ensured success in damaging crucial German installations.
His heroism reached its peak during the mission to Bremen on October 8, 1943, marking his 18th mission. Blakely’s plane, “Just A Snappin,” faced severe damage, losing two engines and nearly requiring a ditch in the North Sea. Miraculously, the crew, credited with shooting down nine Nazi fighters, crash-landed in England. Blakely’s bravery on this mission earned him the Silver Star, the nation’s third-highest medal for gallantry.
Post-war, Blakely continued to serve in various capacities within the Air Force, contributing to education, language training, and international collaborations. His illustrious career spanned 27 years, concluding with his retirement and subsequent move to San Luis Obispo, California.
Lt. Col. Everett Ernest Blakely passed away on September 21, 2004.
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“Masters of the Air” Creator and Writer John Orloff

Writer John Orloff joins Glenn Flickinger to discuss how he brought “Masters of the Air” to television.
Production was a meticulous process marked by deep research, careful storytelling, and an unwavering commitment to historical accuracy. John shares his background, influences, and the challenges he faced in crafting the series.
Orloff’s fascination with history, particularly World War II, stemmed from his upbringing immersed in the era’s media, from movies to television shows. Despite lacking direct military ties, Orloff’s passion for the subject matter and depth of research laid a solid foundation for his work.
The series, a follow-up to the acclaimed “Band of Brothers,” aimes to portray the aerial combat of World War II with unprecedented realism. Orloff had to choose the right story to tell, highlighting the remarkable tale of the hundredth Bomb Group as the basis for the series. This narrative authenticity was crucial, so minimizing fictionalization and drawing from real-life accounts, including after-mission reports, were to to ensure accuracy.
Another challenge was the scale of the production, especially capturing the intensity of aerial combat and the logistical complexities involved in creating a historically accurate portrayal. Each episode features hundreds of special effects shots. It took the dedication of the entire production team to honor the sacrifices of those who served.
We will ask Orloff about the broader themes explored in the series, including the horrors of war and the industrialization necessary for wartime efforts. We’ll also ask him about the relevance of these themes in today’s world, advocating for vigilance against authoritarianism and fascism.
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American POWs in World War II

World War II POW and Eighth Air Force expert Marilyn Walton leads an expert conversation about the experiences of prisoners in Germany.
The experts also discuss fact and fiction in the depiction of POW camps in the Apple TV mini-series “Masters of the Air.”
In addition to Marilyn and the VBC’s own Glenn Flickinger, commenters include:
Carolyn Clark Miller – Daughter of Lt. Gen. Albert P. Clark, Jr. depicted in MOTA. Carolyn’s father flew with the British in order to get into the war early. He had 3 children at the time. He was already a Lt. Col. West Point graduate, considered an “old man” in the camp. He flew Spitfires with the RAF, but he was not in the Eagle Squadrons with them. He was shot down on his first mission in 1942, and lived with the British in North Compound as one of the “early birds.” He was Senior American Officer before a full colonel eventually came in and outranked him. He later became Superintendent of the Air Force Academy.
Lt. Col. Clark worked on Tunnel Harry at Stalag Luft II in security with 600 men under him, including Lt. Sconiers. Clark’s father was a doctor who told him how to tell the Germans at SL3  how to change the latrines outside to make them sanitary. He was one of the last ones to leave Stalag VIIA in Moosburg after liberation as he wanted to make sure all “his boys” were safely gone. He told me once that he remembered seeing the Russians come in and roll up all the barbed wire to take back to Russia.
At SL3, Clark made a secret ledger, now called Behind the Wire, that listed the names and information on all the men in South Compound. Injuries mentioned by downed airmen were listed as well. Clark appointed another POW to interview all the men coming into South Compound. Notation of injuries in that ledger was acceptable evidence to receive Purpose Hearts after the war. Alex Jefferson got his Purple Heart this way after 47 years.  Many others did as well. The men told their stories in their own word in short entries.  This document in now in the Library of Congress.
Pam Whitlock – niece of Lt. Sconiers, a SL3 POW and was buried in 1944, the only POW never brought home as no one could find him. This is subject of the documentary Finding Sconiers. There are 78,000 American MIAs from WWII in Europe and about 35,000 are still considered to be recoverable. We finally brought Sconiers home to be buried next to his mother in DeFuniak Springs, FL. Germans attended and permitted that burial in 1944. Pam worked a lot with DPAA which still searches for our MIAs.
* * *
During World War II, United States Army Air Forces personnel faced the harrowing experience of becoming prisoners of war (POWs) after being captured by German forces. These airmen were detained in various camps known as Stalag Lufts, where they endured challenging conditions and organized themselves for survival amidst enemy captivity.
The German system segregated officers from enlisted men upon capture and sent them to different camps, each administered by the German Luftwaffe and Abwehr. Once inside the confines of these camps, the captured airmen, affectionately referred to as “Kriegies,” found themselves among their comrades. Leadership roles varied among the camps, with senior American officers or elected representatives assuming authority in different compounds.
Life within the POW camps was marked by the segmentation of living quarters into compounds, each containing barracks that housed dozens of men in cramped conditions. As the number of captives increased, overcrowding became a significant issue, forcing many to sleep on floors. The harsh realities of captivity were exacerbated when, in early February 1944, camps faced evacuation due to the advancing Russian forces, leaving tens of thousands of prisoners “On the Road” for extended periods, enduring immense hardships until liberation.
One crucial aspect of the POW experience was the interrogation process at facilities like Dulag Luft. Located in Oberursel, this complex consisted of interrogation centers, hospitals, and transit camps, where captured airmen underwent questioning and evaluation before being transferred to permanent POW camps. Despite being designed to accommodate a limited number of prisoners, overcrowding was common during peak periods, with solitary confinement often enforced.
Stalag Luft I, situated near Barth, Germany, housed Allied prisoners, including American and British officers and enlisted men. The camp, located on the Baltic Sea, saw its first prisoners in July 1940 and was evacuated by 8th Air Force B-17s in May 1945. Similarly, Stalag Luft III, located southeast of Berlin, housed American airmen and became the largest American officers’ camp in Germany by January 1945.
Stalag Luft IV, located in Gross Tychow, Pomerania, witnessed a significant influx of prisoners, swelling its ranks from 1,500 to nearly 10,000 airmen by January 1945. Stalag Luft VI, situated outside Hedekrug, Lithuania, initially held prisoners from Belgium and France before receiving British, Canadian, and American airmen, reflecting the diverse nationalities of POWs held by the Germans.
As Germany’s collapse neared, camps like Stalag VIIA in Moosburg became final gathering points for thousands of Air Corps officers and enlisted men from other camps. The overcrowded conditions and constant influx of prisoners posed challenges for camp administrators, with protests against overcrowding falling on deaf ears.
Despite the adversity, the resilience and resourcefulness of Allied airmen in German POW camps underscored one of the most overlooked chapters in American history.
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WWII Ball Turret Gunner and POW Les Schrenk

Les Schrenk’s story as a World War II ball turret gunner is one of courage, resilience, and unexpected humanity amidst the chaos of war.
He was assigned as a ball turret gunner to the 327th Bombardment Squadron, 92nd Bomb Group of the 8th Air Force, stationed at RAF Podington.
As a ball turret gunner, Schrenk inadvertently found himself in his position due to circumstance. His crew, led by 2nd Lt Lavies, formed a tight-knit unit, flying numerous missions together. Loyalty and a sense of duty bound them, despite the inherent dangers they faced.
The “BIG WEEK” bombing campaign placed Schrenk and his crew in the thick of combat, facing heavy German fighter opposition. On February 22nd, their tenth and final mission, they targeted the German airfield Aalborg-West in Denmark as a diversion.
During the mission, their B-17, “Pot O’ Gold,” was hit, and Schrenk witnessed the loss of fellow aircraft and crew members. Eventually, their plane caught fire, and they were forced to bail out. Schrenk’s exit from the ball turret, normally a daunting task, was complicated by the dire circumstances.
His parachute initially failed to deploy properly, but he managed to rectify the issue, landing in enemy territory and being taken prisoner by German troops. Despite the trauma of combat and capture, Schrenk’s resilience and composure stood out.
Schrenk’s post-war reconciliation with his past, including a visit to the crash site of “Pot O’ Gold” and the spot where Lavies perished, reflects his enduring respect and remembrance for his fallen comrades.
Near war’s end, Lester was forced on a death march west.
In 2012, Les finally met the German pilot – Hans-Hermann Muller – who had spared the American bomber knowing that if it went down over water, the entire crew would drown.
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How to Shoot Down B-17

Experts Colin Heaton and Joe McCarthy join Glenn Flickinger to discuss the tactics of aerial combat in World War II, focusing especially on how the Luftwaffe attempted to bring down B-17 formations, and the defenses those formations used to get through to their targets. Glenn will also discuss his thoughts on the finale of the Apple TV mini-series “Masters of the Air”
During World War II, the German Luftwaffe executed various strategies to counter the formidable threat posed by B-17 Flying Fortress squadrons, the iconic American heavy bombers.
Fast and maneuverable fighter aircraft, such as the Messerschmitt Bf 109 and Focke-Wulf Fw 190, surrounded the B-17s on all sides, making it challenging for the American bombers to defend themselves. The German pilots aimed to exploit the vulnerable areas of the B-17, such as the unescorted belly and rear positions, as they were less heavily armed.
To counter these attacks, B-17 crews developed defensive formations and tactics. The Flying Fortresses were equipped with multiple .50 caliber machine guns, strategically positioned to provide overlapping fields of fire. The most common defensive formation was the “combat box,” where B-17s flew closely together, forming a defensive wall of firepower. The concentration of defensive armament in these formations made it difficult for German fighters to penetrate without facing intense opposition.
Furthermore, B-17s often employed the “fighter weave” maneuver, where adjacent bombers would take turns moving to the front of the formation to engage attacking fighters. This coordinated defensive maneuver allowed the B-17s to present a continuous front, making it harder for the Luftwaffe to exploit weak points.
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The Ninth Air Force in World War II

We turn our attention to the Eighth Air Force’s little brother, the Ninth Air Force which, among other things, played a crucial role in supporting the D-Day landings on the beaches of Normandy. 
Thomas Hughes, author of "Overlord: General Pete Quesada and the Triumph of Tactical Air Power in World War II" and our own P-47 pilot, Ed Cottrell, who turned 102 years old in January, will be special guests for the conversation.
The Ninth Air Force was born in North Africa toward the end of 1942, after the US invasion.  The Ninth provided air support during the decisive Battle of El Alamein. Using B-24 Liberators, it also targeted Axis shipping and installations along the North African coast.
By January 1943, the Ninth Air Force had expanded its capabilities with the arrival of additional fighter and troop carrier groups in the Mediterranean. Equipped with P-40s, the fighter groups operated alongside British forces, while the troop carriers supported ground forces and facilitated air evacuation of casualties.
With the success in Tunisia, the Ninth Air Force turned its focus to the upcoming invasion of Sicily. B-24 groups joined Twelfth Air Force B-17s in attacks on Italian targets and airfields in Sicily. The stage was set for the Sicily campaign, with additional B-24 groups from the Eighth Air Force reinforcing IX Bomber Command. The joint effort aimed at disrupting Axis transportation centers and reducing defenses in preparation for the invasion.
In August 1943, the Ninth Air Force undertook an ambitious low-level attack on the Ploesti oil fields, facing intense enemy fire. Despite navigational errors and casualties, the mission partially succeeded. This marked a turning point as the combined force later struck aircraft factories in Austria, showcasing the Ninth Air Force’s adaptability and expanding role in strategic operations.
The Casablanca Conference in early 1943 laid the groundwork for a “combined bomber offensive” against Germany. Ninth Air Force, initially conceived for tactical support, transitioned to England to become the American tactical air force for the Normandy landings. This shift involved the transfer of assets and the establishment of the IX Bomber, Fighter, and Service commands in England.
Operational challenges arose as the Ninth Air Force initially operated under the Eighth Air Force’s control. General Spaatz’s influence created tensions, as he sought control over all U.S. air units in England, including the Ninth. Despite initial plans for an independent tactical air force, Spaatz’s authority prevailed, and the Ninth Air Force operated under the Eighth’s command.
As D-Day approached, the Ninth Air Force took center stage in supporting ground forces. Fighter and bomber groups covered the beaches, providing essential air support during the Normandy landings. General Patton relied heavily on the fighter-bombers for flank protection, solidifying the Ninth Air Force’s crucial role in ground operations.
After securing the Normandy beachhead, the Ninth Air Force, under General Vandenberg, continued supporting ground forces during breakouts. Fighter-bombers played a pivotal role in countering German counterattacks, notably during the Battle of the Bulge. The IX Troop Carrier Command also assumed an unprecedented role, providing aerial supply and reinforcement support.
The Ninth Air Force’s contributions in World War II were instrumental in shaping modern warfare. While the Eighth Air Force became obsolete, the fighter-bomber concept introduced by the Ninth endured, influencing military strategies into the Jet Age. The Ninth Air Force’s evolution from the Mediterranean to Normandy showcased its adaptability, resilience, and pivotal role in Allied victory in Europe.
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The POW Experience at Stalag Luft III in World War II

Historian and technical advisor on the TV series Masters of the Air, Colin Heaton returns to the program to talk about the WWII POW experience in Europe. Joining him is fellow technical advisor, Marilyn Walton, an expert on the treatment and lives of American prisoners in Germany.
We also welcome Anita Sybesma, historian and President of the 96th Bomb Group Association. Anita’s father was navigator Danny Martin Crist, who began flying missions in 1942.  He flew 25 missions with at least six different crews, was wounded, shot down, and held as a POW at Luft Stalag III.
Colin Heaton served in the US Army and US Marines and was a professor of history at American Military University. He is currently developing historical documentaries, feature film and series projects. His last major project was working with Dale Dye and Marilyn Walton as a technical consultant on the WWII limited series Masters of the Air for Kirk Saduksi, Tom Hanks and Steven Spielberg.
Heaton has co-authored several books with prominent military figures, including historians and veterans. 
One of his notable works is The German Aces Speak: World War II Through the Eyes of Four of the Luftwaffe’s Most Important Commanders, co-written with Anne-Marie Lewis. This book provides insights into the experiences of German fighter pilots during World War II, offering a perspective from those who were directly involved in aerial combat.
Marilyn Walton has become one of the greatest experts on  the POW experience in World War II. One of her books is Rhapsody in Junk: A Daughter’s Return to Germany to Finish Her Father’s Story which delves into archives across England, Germany, Poland, and the United States to reconstruct the final mission of her father and his crew during World War II. 
The narrative unfolds through her journey to locate the German cemetery where one crewmate was buried and to reunite the remaining crew members after a span of sixty years.
Through interviews with the crew and fellow prisoners of war, Walton gathers essential pieces of the puzzle, gradually uncovering details about their capture and interrogation. She explores old records, letters, diaries, and mission documents, eventually leading her to return to Germany. 
Astonishingly, she discovers the crash site of her father’s B-24, where remnants of the plane still linger. During this return, she connects emotionally with the people of Wagersrott, the peaceful farm community where her father was taken prisoner decades ago.
Walton goes beyond her father’s individual story, presenting the experiences of both British and German civilians who suffered during the war. The narrative reveals a first-hand account of the bombing of Dresden from a surviving German couple. 
Throughout her European odyssey, Walton weaves together the rich tapestry of people who endured and survived World War II. The book becomes a multi-faceted mosaic, reflecting the personal stories of those caught up in the dictates of a madman.
Another of Marilyn’s books is From Interrogation to Liberation: A Photographic Journey Stalag Luft III: The Road to Freedom, a compelling exploration of the experiences of airmen who found themselves prisoners at Stalag Luft III, the infamous camp known for the Great Escape.
The book details the airmen’s experiences, including deprivation, loneliness, and the perils of being held captive. It recounts a 52-mile force march in the dead of winter from Stalag Luft III to Spremberg, Germany, and their subsequent transportation to overcrowded, filthy boxcars destined for other POW camps. 
The Americans were either taken to Stalag VIIA in Moosburg, Germany, or Stalag XIII-D in Nürnberg. The authors vividly describe the harsh conditions and the witness of the death throes of the Third Reich.
The narrative not only serves as a personal account but also provides crucial information and insight into the broader World War II POW experience in Europe. It highlights the co-existence and tenuous relationship between the prisoners and their German captors. 
The book unveils previously untold stories and features numerous unseen photographs, offering readers a documented and riveting history of the war. Through the voices of those who lived it, the authors bring to life the sacrifices made by these airmen to ensure precious freedom, emphasizing that their stories should never be forgotten.
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8th Air Force Expert Steve Snyder and B-17 Pilot “Lucky” Luckadoo on “Masters of the Air”

Steve Snyder is author of "Shot Down: The True Story of Pilot Howard Snyder and the Crew of the B-17 Susan Ruth," a poignant and meticulously researched account that delves into the untold stories of the B-17 Flying Fortress Susan Ruth and its crew during World War II. 
At the heart of the narrative is Lieutenant Howard Snyder, the author’s father, whose experiences as a pilot provide a unique and personal perspective on the challenges faced by those who flew in the war.
Also, we’ll check in with John “Lucky” Luckadoo to hear his thoughts on the latest episodes of “Masters of the Air.”
Steve's book begins by exploring the broader context of World War II, touching on the emotional toll of separation as young families were torn apart when men like Lt. Snyder went off to war. Snyder skillfully navigates through various aspects of the conflict, including the intense training before deployment to foreign soil, military combat operations, and the harrowing ordeals faced by those shot down behind enemy lines.
One of the notable aspects of “Shot Down” is its focus on the underground resistance and the author’s account of Lt. Snyder’s involvement in it. The book sheds light on the bravery and sacrifices of both aircrews and civilians who risked their lives to save downed American flyers, illustrating the interconnectedness of their fates during this tumultuous time.
Snyder draws on a wealth of primary sources, including letters, journals, and diaries from his father and other key figures involved in the events. The narrative skillfully weaves these personal accounts with historical records and declassified files, creating a comprehensive and vivid portrayal of the Susan Ruth crew’s experiences.
The author’s modern-day detective work is evident as he tracks down the relatives of crewmembers, interacts with former Luftwaffe fighter pilots, and connects with the families of Belgian and French resistance fighters. This not only adds depth to the narrative but also underscores Snyder’s dedication to presenting a well-rounded and authentic account.
“Shot Down” extends beyond the aerial battles, providing a behind-the-scenes look at the lives of Belgian civilians who risked everything to aid American flyers. The book highlights instances of German atrocities toward captured crew and civilians, offering a sobering glimpse into the harsh realities faced by those entangled in the war.
The creation and dedication of the monument to the Susan Ruth and its crew in Macquenoise, Belgium, in 1989 serve as a fitting tribute to the enduring impact of the events chronicled in the book. Snyder successfully moves history from the footnotes into reality, ensuring that the stories of real people and their experiences during World War II remain alive and relevant.
“Shot Down” is more than a historical account; it is a testament to the author’s care, respect for his subjects, and his meticulous research. The engaging narrative, coupled with over 200 photographs and graphics, brings to life the everyday experiences of the men who flew these perilous missions. With its well-deserved recognition, including 15 national book awards, “Shot Down” stands as a captivating and highly recommended contribution to the understanding of World War II history and the unsung heroes who played crucial roles in it.
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Author Robert Matzen on “Masters of the Air” with Glenn Flickinger

What Does Author Robert Matzen Think of “Masters of the Air”?
Robert Matzen is author of "Mission: Jimmy Stewart and the Fight for Europe," a full account of the Hollywood star’s experiences and an 8th Air Force pilot and commander.
In March 1941, a few months before the attack on Pearl Harbor, Stewart enlisted as a private in the United States Army Air Corps. His decision to serve was not merely symbolic; Stewart was genuinely committed to contributing to the war effort. His background as a pilot, even before his acting career took off, made him a natural fit for the Air Corps. Stewart’s commitment to serving his country was clear, as he turned down offers to avoid combat and even attempted to resign his commission to enter the battle sooner.
In 1943, he was assigned to the 445th Bombardment Group, part of the Eighth Air Force, and flew numerous combat missions over Nazi-occupied Europe. Stewart piloted B-24 Liberator bombers, facing the dangers and challenges of aerial warfare with courage.
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Historian and USAF Veteran Robert Ehlers on Air Intelligence in World War II on Masters of the Air

Robert Ehlers on Air Intelligence in the Air War Over Europe
Glenn welcomes Dr. Robert Ehlers, who draws on his own experiences as an Air Force Intelligence officer in writing "Targeting the Third Reich: Air Intelligence and the Allied Bombing Campaigns. "
"Targeting the Third Reich"examines the pivotal role of air intelligence in the Allied bombing campaigns during World War II, specifically focusing on the Combined Bomber Offensive from 1943 to 1945. The book explores the symbiotic relationship between air intelligence and operational planning, shedding light on how intelligence contributed to the success of strategic bombing missions against Germany.
Ehlers emphasizes the collaboration between the Royal Air Force's (RAF) "precision intelligence" and the U.S. Army Air Force's (AAF) "precision bombardment" forces. The RAF's expertise in photographic reconnaissance and signals intelligence played a crucial role in guiding both British and American bombers to strategically significant targets with precise timing and munitions. This partnership was effective in orchestrating damage assessment within a well-organized structure.
Ehlers focuses on three key offensives in 1944 that had a profound impact on the Nazi war effort: attacks on French and Belgian rail supply lines to Normandy, strikes against German oil refineries, and bombings of German railroads and waterways. The book underscores the effectiveness of bombers as part of a combined-arms force, providing crucial advantages to Allied armies on the battlefield.
The heart of the narrative lies in the examination of how air intelligence influenced the decision-making process of senior air commanders, such as the RAF's Arthur "Bomber" Harris and the AAF's Carl "Tooey" Spaatz. By 1944, these commanders could assess the accuracy and effects of bombing with precision, analyze its impact on the German war effort, and determine its effectiveness in achieving strategic objectives.
Ehlers utilizes a wealth of bomb-damage assessment photographs and archival sources to demonstrate the success of air intelligence in the Allied victory. The book argues that the devastating impact of over 1.4 million bombing missions and nearly 2.7 million tons of bombs on Axis powers was, in large part, due to the strategic use of intelligence operations.
The narrative also addresses the misuses of intelligence by political and military leaders during the conflict. Ehlers highlights operational errors resulting from misused intelligence, such as attacks on non-lucrative targets or insufficient persistence in attacking vital objectives. The analysis reveals instances where political and military preferences affected the efficient use of intelligence.
Listen to Glenn's conversation with Ehlers for a deeper understanding of the role of air intelligence in the defeat of the Third Reich. 
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